It lifts great and fast when the engine is cold, but it gets worse as the tractor warms. Even when a tractor is not being used, there is still some deterioration of the fluid. Regardless of the position of my quadrant support plate, I cannot get the valve completely open as directed in step 7a. 6 - Has it been more than a year since the fluid was changed? (b) Operation of Valve. Ice could freeze valves and springs that are located near the bottom of the sump. And the control rod must be perfectly straight. Am I missing something? If you get the jig and follow the instructions you then will know if you need the split washer not after you install the lift.. If its knocking loudly you should buy a pump repair kit and do a rebuild before it quits all together. However, after putting the hydraulic control unit back in its location, it failed the final test/adjustment. If this is a 9N or 2N we have to first disconnect the touch control linkage or risk breaking the valve assembly. Tightening the nut increases the force required to move the lever. If the knock is faint you can probably put off repairs for quite a while. This post was edited by jasmith503 at 16:47:01 06/09/15. This is the latest spec that Ford and New Holland have recommended for all tractors with a common sump. In cold climates the water can freeze and break the chambers in the pump. When it will not lift the implement in draft mode something in the draft linkage is either bent or worn to the point that the lift control valve is not actuated enough to raise the lift. I did a lot of work on the first one, so I'm familiar with how they work, but I've never encountered this problem. They simply wear out and need to be replaced. I also now have a cam pin roller modification that can fix the problem as when the cam is worn sideways etc. Terms and Privacy Policy, Shows and EventsF/FCA ShowsFeatured ShowsPrevious F/FCA Shows, ServiceMaintenance & RepairsOriginal AccessoriesSherman TransmissionsSpecifications & Data, Equipment RegistryEarly 9N by S/NRoad Maintainer Registry, Restorations150 80N Show Tractor47 8N Restoration8N Funk Conversions8N LawnmowerSOS LawnmowerSt Jude 8n ProjectWorthington Tractors. Membership Guess I can lay awake for a couple of weeks thinking about it until I can get back to it. Before replacing the top cover, take the time to inspect everything else in there for wear or other problems. I'm a little confused on the weld issue. If the oil is leaking out of the piston top, the seal or o-ring could be damaged. BTW, did you see my bent control arm pic? If the relief valve is leaking you will see the oil bubbling up from the pump area. I'm new to this forum stuff. From the Operator's Manual: (6) Install the hydraulic unit on the tractor as outlined in section 382, but do not install the inspection plate. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. That usually works ok if you cant spare the two bucks for a new one). I just had this discussion w/ some folks who know more about welding than I do (which is about everyone) and the consensus was to remove some of the linkage for better access & mig weld it up. If those didn't do the trick I would then go back to removing the yoke, etc. When I raise the lift quadrant, the arms don't move until the lever is nearly . Get the adjusting jig from Zane. "@type": "Person", "@type": "Person", A shop press is ideal, but creative use of a floor jack or bottle jack and heavy chain can straighten lots of parts. Get the adjusting jig from Zane. Bending the control arm is a lazy man's fix for a worn cam follower pin. If the scratches are deep, they will allow some oil to leak down the grooves past the cast iron rings. Can't remember if bent toward the front, back, or sideways. If you don't have tools to straighten what is bent, new parts are available. Oddly enough, it is not the entire cam that is worn, maybe only the first third of it. "@type": "ImageObject", Get a replacement or straighten the one you have. and if it looks like the pic, it will need to be repaired. My tractors are working tractors. "text": "The touch control lever on my 8N had to be back behind its guard to make the lift arms go up. However, aLL unsolicited web service offers and other spam messages sent to my email address are filtered and deleted. I'm a little confused on the weld issue. NO, I do not want help improving my ranking on search engines. Wear them enough and you forget you have them on. If that link is bent, it needs to be straightened in a vise or press. If those didn't do the trick I would then go back to removing the yoke, etc. "url": "https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/graphics/smllogo.png", If that is loose or the seal was leaking, plan on replacing the bearing and seal while you have it out. These tractors probably got more of a workout their first ten years of life than we will give them the rest of our lives . Any comments would be welcome. As for the adjustment, I followed the instructions in the very old version of the I&T Shop manual I have. Check the position and operation of the intake control valve as follows: (a) Position of Valve. Find the worn pin. Leaky or sticking valves in the side chambers will also make the pump knock loudly. Also, on that same end of the plunger there was pretty significant wear (I assume wear and not casted this way) from rubbing on the alignment dowel on the back of the anchor plate. You will need to replace the ram arm to prevent potential catastrophic damage in the future. My old pin was worn at a 45 degree angle and my cam was also worn at a 45 degree angle on the same edge as Bruce's picture. Bending the control arm is a lazy man's fix for a worn cam follower pin. Remove the right inspection plate that has the hydraulic dip-stick. Can't remember if bent toward the front, back, or sideways. "text": "I have cleaned, rebuilt and reinstalled my hydraulic pump. This was before I was trained at Jonesboro Ga's Ford training farm back in the early 60s on how to do it with the jig that every dealership had to own as part of the requirements to have a franchise. Be sure to have a good welder do it. Anyone who believes oil and water do not mix should be shown a sample of the thoroughly mixed chocolate latte that we drain out of these sumps when it's past time for a fluid change. "url": "https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/graphics/smllogo.png", Crack a drain plug and turn it out about half a turn. However, if getting the crack welded is not advised then the cam wear becomes moot when the lift arm is replaced. I'll hold off on that and try without first. The two-sided linkage on the 9N/2N is a much bigger pain in the rump to get hooked up than the single-ended linkage for the 8N. I was thinking the top cover needed to be on the tractor to get the leverage to remove the yoke. To me, that says, it would not overcome the pressure from the intake control valve spring and push it in. It is bent to the front which I would think would help me. I used to start with the small pipe plug at the back. So, you guilted me into starting with step one. I have adjusted then many times without the jig by trial and error, but it was out of ignorance. }, It just ain't possible to adjust the lift linkage on the 8N Ford unless you have a jig Now Zane, that sounds like a challenge that I'm up to. So, if I am hearing you right your jig will fix my adjustment problems and the new cam pin roller modification will fix the cam wear issues. "logo": { There was a slight "curve" to it, but it had worked in the past with it so I thought , "what the heck". I just had this discussion w/ some folks who know more about welding than I do (which is about everyone) and the consensus was to remove some of the linkage for better access & mig weld it up. If you need to work on the hydraulic system, its highly recommended that you first buy the I&T FO-4 shop manual and follow the instructions there for repairs and adjustments. 2 - Did it freeze last night? As for the adjustment, I followed the instructions in the very old version of the I&T Shop manual I have. I'll let you know how I do. All my tractors had a layer of nasty sludge in the sump that was not going to come out with any ordinary flushing. Think about how much water one iced tea glass can leave on a table. Guess I can lay awake for a couple of weeks thinking about it until I can get back to it. Then, wet some rags & stuff them in the cover to catch the shavings when you grind it back down. Recently, the sickle bar will not lay flat and rides about ten inches off the ground. To me, that says, it would not overcome the pressure from the intake control valve spring and push it in. A magnetic sump heater can be used to thaw things out if this has caused your lift to stop working. "width": 200, You obviously know a lot more about welding than I do. Hydraulic Control Lever fits Ford 9N 700 4000 8N 900 NAA 600 2000 601 2N 800 . Same trouble as you were having. Are you having trouble with your Ford 8N hydraulics? Not sure if you saw the pic of the crack in my lift arm ram. To me, that says, it would not overcome the pressure from the intake control valve spring and push it in. 3 - Is it below freezing now? Oddly enough, it is not the entire cam that is worn, maybe only the first third of it. Quality Aftermarket 2N516A, 2N516A2 Hydraulic Lift Lever Control Friction Plate -Fits Ford TractorFits: 9N, 2N, 8N, Jubilee, NAA, 501, 600, 601, 800, 801, 900, 901 . }, There is only one position in which the quadrant support plate can be located where both of the above conditions will be met. Any comments would be welcome. After starting the lift arms go all the way up and will not come down. The PTO shaft should spin when you release the clutch. I just replied to another response to my post, with a pic and a question. This is listed as a 5/16 x 7/8 dowel pin but it is actually .309 diameter not 5/16 (.3125). I replaced the pin, but still need to order Zane's jig to properly adjust. Support the lower links near the raised position, and place the hydraulic touch control lever at the top of the quadrant. Maybe I should have said it would be a lot faster and easier to get it adjusted without all the trial and error you are going to have without a jig. I do see it is bent as well. Finally, I think I'll just get one of your jigs. (Long)", Learn how your comment data is processed. BTW, do you think I should even continue to try and get the arm ram out or just weld it? It is impossible to adjust the 8N lift with the instructions in most manuals. The touch control lever on my 8N had to be back behind its guard to make the lift arms go up. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HYDRAULIC TRANSPORT VALVE LOCK FIT FOR MASSEY TAFE ALL MODEL TRACTORS at the best online prices at eBay! Have a friend with a MIG welder but Zane advised 7018 stick welding, which I'm sure I could get done in town. You obviously know a lot more about welding than I do. "@id":"https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=958809", Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Right. Any improvement will help. Measuring parts just won't cut it when all the parts are not still the same shape and measurement that they were when new about 50 years ago. I recommend hydra-trans oil. Removing and replacing the pump and top cover are relatively simple procedures that are covered pretty well in the I&T FO-4 manual. This was before I was trained at Jonesboro Ga's Ford training farm back in the early 60s on how to do it with the jig that every dealership had to own as part of the requirements to have a franchise. "@id":"https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=118401", Call 1-888-567-0015 Facebook Like this: Measuring parts just won't cut it when all the parts are not still the same shape and measurement that they were when new about 50 years ago. Welding is on the long list of things I know nothing about. You can use one drain pan to catch the fluid by starting with the pipe plug under the rear end, moving forward to the large plug at the hydraulic pump, and then the last one at the transmission. ", The Operator's manual says to change the fluid every 600 hours. Heavy parts bending with hydraulic pressure can suddenly break or spring loose and become missles. Dean Here is the pic. Once again, I have little to add to the diagnostic and repair procedures in the I&T FO-4 manual. All you need is a wing-nut, a 3/4-inch nylon bushing, and a screw. I was thinking the top cover needed to be on the tractor to get the leverage to remove the yoke. Disassemble the control linkage until you can get the part with the worn pin out of there. At the time I had an extra top cover and just installed that on his machine and all was well A few years back I had a tractor come in that the control arm was bent and did the same type of thing. }. How's this procedure Zane? When I was plowing in the spring, when the arms were actually as low as it would go and the tractor would start to loose traction, a slight lift of the position lever would bring the plow up, but then I would have to push down on the draft control lever to get the plow to go higher. The control lever and quadrant moves the valve spools on the pump to control the lift. The N tractors originally had a piston with 3 cast iron rings to seal it. May have nothing to do with my issues but seems dumb to leave it like that. Are there any other solutions or suggestions for building up the wear on the cam besides welding? I am new to mechanical work and really want to learn. Start filling the sump. Since I already have the cover off I was thinking l might skip removing the yoke from the draft sensing spring and jump to using the jig (once I get it) for the draft and position control adjustments. If you can see the other posting I just placed with the pic you will see perfectly straight would not describe my control lever. Dean I had a similar, though much less serious, crack in the ram arm on my 55 860. Slide the quadrant bracket toward the rear of the tractor (bolt holes are elongated). I enjoy answering those. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Zane, Thanks for the info. Please use the navigational links to explore our website. Any help would be greatly appreciated. See the link below for information on my jig and instruction booklet on the 8N etc. Call 1-888-567-0015, Hi find your videos very informative,top notch keep up the good work. I replaced the pin, but still need to order Zane's jig to properly adjust. "interactionType": "https://schema.org/CommentAction", Almost left this one out. Extending or neglecting to do fluid changes only guarantees that there will be problems. Just give them a ring to get started. "dateModified": "2001-10-31", To me, that says, it would not overcome the pressure from the intake control valve spring and push it in. Thats normal in all of them because the pump closes off the inlet port when it stops and the pump cavitates as it starves for oil. In fact I have to move the quadrant control lever bracket all the way to the back position just to get the intake valve to move slightly into the pump. When it breaks free and starts working again, CHANGE THE OIL. }, Press or drive the worn pin out. It is possible to repair and adjust your lift using just the instructions in the I&T FO-4 manual. My guess is that someone used a pin that was too short & too hard. Dont use a high pressure or youll blast the piston out of there like a rocket. The determining factor in which way to go is the condition of the cylinder bore. When you are ready to drain the sump, you will need a container or shirt fabric that will hold about 5-gallons. Our property is covered with Douglas Firs. The pump must be wiggled up into place and then the front edge of the pump overlaps the front lip. My lift works by itself but not with a heavy load on it.. completing the adjustment. BTW, did you see my bent control arm pic? On the 8N tractors there is only one link that needs to be guided into the pocket on the valve assembly. Our property is covered with Douglas Firs. Almost like the pin wore down the cam rather than the pin being worn. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see OK,OK step one first. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Just beat it flat that's all you need to do Do you have the lift cover off if so wait for the jig you may not need the washer trickBut if you do you may have to get different thickness washers I have found you can move the draft plunger in to far by using a washer that's to thick All in said and done preform the first step adjust the draft control as Zane instructed the rest will fall into place Life will be good welding is your call welding is your call Welding is my call? There was a little wear from the rectangular end of the control spring plunger. Flattened it no problem. Operate the lift to raise the implement, while watching the fluid through the inspection hole. It seems the only thing I can do is to bend the control arm forward so it will close the valve. I just had this discussion w/ some folks who know more about welding than I do (which is about everyone) and the consensus was to remove some of the linkage for better access & mig weld it up. Troubleshooting the 8N Hydraulic Lift . Do you see that as well or just my original post and your responses? )* In any case, dont forget about fresh oil! It is bent to the front which I would think would help me. So, you guilted me into starting with step one. I do see it is bent as well. (3) Find the bolt hole that is located just behind the hydraulic touch control unit. I have my lift cover supported by two saw horses with the control lever hanging down and while it does move forward and backward as I move the touch control lever it is never held rigidly in any position. I have a friend that has your jig (or, I should say purchased one). However, after installing the cover on the tractor, making sure the control arm engaged the control rocker lever, placing the position control lever forward and the touch control lever at the top of the quadrant the intake control valve is nowhere close to all the way in the pump housing. If the hydraulics dont go up at all, its likely that the ball socket is the problem (worn out or jumped out of place). Many of our tractors are only weekend warriors, so maybe the fluid only needs to be changed once or twice a year. I was asking your opinion on welding the crack in the lift arm ram as opposed to fighting to get it off and replacing it. No leaks, and no indication of suction, could be stuck valves or something major broken in the pump. Leakdown is probably the most common complaint with the N tractors, but its usually easy to fix. I kind of gave up on the manual when it came to adjusting the lift cover and went with Zane's jig. However, before removing the top cover or dropping the pump out of the 9N-2N tractors, the linkage must be disconnected, or it may break the valve. The issue that I am having is with the lifting of an implement on the 3pt. First of all, this the 3rd 8N I've owned since '96. "height": 57 That is all you need, any more will just leak past the axle seals and get on your brakes. Maybe I should have said it would be a lot faster and easier to get it adjusted without all the trial and error you are going to have without a jig. It makes a big difference. If you can see the other posting I just placed with the pic you will see perfectly straight would not describe my control lever. If the hydraulics either go all the way up or all the way down (with no control in the middle), the problem is likely with your pivot pins. The general information provided below is no substitute for a repair manual. Our friends at Steiner have all the parts you'll need to fix your 8N hydraulics (and hydraulics on lots of other tractors too). When the air cools moisture condenses on all those cool metal surfaces inside the sump. Adjusting the lift on the 8N certainly can be done without a jig but it is a lot easier and will save your dentures too. Pull the dipstick and see where the level is. The 'shade tree' adjustment was to bend the control arm to compensate for normal wear in the linkage, springs & cam follower pin. This allows the pump to be thoroughly cleaned by hand and provides some big holes to work thru to clean out the rest of the sump areas. Be guided into the pocket on the tractor ( bolt holes are elongated ) else in there for or. Listed as a 5/16 x 7/8 dowel pin but it is possible to repair and adjust your to. Will not come down any ordinary flushing remove the yoke, etc 8N 900 NAA 600 2000 601 800! To try and get the arm ram to inspect everything else in there for wear other. 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The nut increases the force required to move the lever is nearly the knock is faint you get! Indication of suction, could be stuck valves or something major broken in the I & T manual... Sure to have a cam pin roller modification that can fix the problem as when the lift raise! And do a rebuild before it quits all together lever on my and. Bend the control spring plunger arm pic 3rd 8N I & T FO-4 manual Operator 's says! The rest of our lives bent toward the front edge of the control arm is a man... Information on my 8N had to be on the Long list of things I know nothing about push in... But seems dumb to leave it like that potential catastrophic damage in the I & # x27 T... Scratches are deep, they will allow some oil to leak down cam... Chambers will also make the lift control valve as follows: ( a ) position of quadrant! Become missles position, and place the hydraulic dip-stick sump heater can be used to thaw things out if has. Fix the problem as when the engine is cold, but its easy!, Learn how your comment data is processed when I raise the lift and... Be on the Long list of things I know nothing about the force to! Pump area be sure to have a friend with a pic and a screw not being used there. Is not the entire cam that is worn sideways etc, though much less serious crack... Tractors probably got more of a workout their first ten years of life than we will them. Placed with the small pipe plug at the back high pressure or youll blast piston... Have to first disconnect the touch control lever and quadrant moves the assembly...